Ronald, how do you think the county is going to "manage and enforce" a dump located less than 1000 feet from densely-built multifamily housing to be unobtrusive?

The reason we have zoning laws is to prevent exactly this kind of situation. If the result of the zoning laws is that dumps are located between schools, commerce, and dense residential areas, what's the point of zoning laws?

Dave: The issue is that the dump was there first. Current enforcement is a joke and current fines are even a bigger joke. Landfills can be managed if fines and penalties make it more expensive than violations. we should be fighting for larger penalties and personal liability for the owners instead of allowing them to 'dump' it all on their shill corporations. I am not for the dump. I just think the way the community is going about this is wrong. I am against the proposals as stated but I am also against homeowners moving into an area that is next to the dump or the raceway and then expecting them to change. Same crap this country pulled with Native Americans. If you don't start standing up for those that you are not in agreement with who will be left to stand up for you?

Ronald,

No, actually the dump was not there first. If it was, they wouldn't need to get a sanitary landfill permit from the State Dept. of the Environment.

It's true that a "rubble" reclamation operation was zoned (allowed by the county but not approved by the state) by a special exception variance back in 1994, but the time to implement that has been extended for years beyond the original permit time.

In truth, the zoning code specifically states that significant changes to the community should be a factor in making decisions about zoning. The AA county administration has not taken that view.

Furthermore, with Massachusetts banning all drywall from their landfills, it's quite likely that this sanitary landfill will be used to dispose of large quantities of out-of-state drywall waste.

This waste will rot and produce large quantities of hydrogen sulfide and other landfill gases. To my knowledge, the MDE has not put any special conditions on the permit for the landfill (such as banning or limiting drywall, or mandating an active gas removal system) which would help mitigate the impact to the dense residential housing near the area.

Ronald,

I certainly had no idea that the dump was going to be built less than 1000 feet from my house when I moved into Piney Orchard 7 years ago. No one is required to give notice, and the AA county minimum notification line for the landfill special exception changes is only 150 feet.

Ronald,

If I knew about the dump near my house I wouldn't have bought it, simple as that. These things are kept quiet for a reason. The dump is NOT an existing use, it is a new use that requires a permit from the state.

Dave - I didn't know that. Sounds like something we need to get changed on the State level. Is this something that realtors should be disclosing? It's unfortunate that we have to learn all of this after we grow old. I'll reconsider my postion.

Take Care

Ron,

No, the State minimum notification requirement is 1000 feet - that's why the first I knew about the landfill near my house was when Tolson was required to notify me via a certified letter from their lawyer - I thought I was being sued!

It's AA County's notification policy that's screwy. If the State requires 1000 feet for policy changes with respect to landfills, why does AA county only require 150? That makes no sense and should be changed.

Ron, for the record I am private citizen and unpaid volunteer homeowner who happens to be a not-for-profit corporate director - not a public figure. With regard to you being a knucklehead, one does not have to take my word for it, they just have to read your incessant rants (including profanities) all over the Patch and draw their own conclusions. Or better yet, just meet you in person.

The three members from our area all voted against this. This was a 5-4 vote on the Board of Ed. We need to flip one, so we'll keep trying. And the facts are on our side, the other side is just tried to keep them under wraps, divide and conquer and muddy up the issue.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the US

'Flip one' and printing the names of the Board Members that voted against your position all sounds like the dirty filthy politics you are known for playing by. Why not list the names of the Board members that voted against it so that the true homeowners around here can put pressure on them in order to 'flip' them. Once again you like presenting only half the truth and half the story. Get a conscience and do what's right instead of doing what's right for you. At least these Board Members are voted for by real voters and homeowners and not proxies by those that don't vote in our jurisdiction. The more you rant the more people are getting to see you for who you truly are.

Ron - Reality check time - the Board of Education in Anne Arundel County is appointed by the Governor, they are not elected. Lastly, I was elected by homeowners - twice in fact and got highest number of votes both times --- first time in field of 10 and second time in field of 6. I used my personal time off from work to go testify at the meeting, I asked the Board not to change its published agenda and vote on this in September. Andrew Pruski, Stacy Korbelak, Theresa Birge, and Deborah Ritchie cast votes supporting me on that. Three of the 4 of them are also from this immediate area. How is any of this not doing what's right? There were many other ways I could have spent my time today. Breath into a paper bag, you seem to be light-headed.

Keep patting yourself on the back Jeff you really are my hero. BUT would you be on the Board if the proxies had voted against you? I think not.

Once again - attack Chris when he doesn't agree with you. Don't you dare address the issues. Attack everyone that is against your way of life.

Thank you Chris - when you agree and when you don't agree with me.

@double d, I think he has a crush on me. Seriously, as we saw in 2008, one new school in an area can have a domino effect throughout when it comes to redistricting, and the goal of the developers in this is to always make sure that lines are redrawn so that the areas that they want to develop appear to be well under capacity. However, also as we saw in 2008, the projections for 2009 onward were way off from the reality, and schools filled up quicker. Four Seasons for example is now closed because enrollment exceeds state capacity, but showed up as open for many years back in 2008.

@doubled, what's interesting about the Route 3 issue is that COO of the school system told us at our meeting here that in the mornings if Patuxent Rd is impassable because of flooding (which we all know happens fairly often) the contingency is go on Route 3. In the afternoon, the buses would go down route 3 and turn left on Conway Rd. So during rainy spells, they'll be on Route 3 both ways, and every day in the afternoon. So your point is very well taken.

Gee Ronald, your ringing endorsement of the unelected AA County School Board's decision at the top of the comments seems to be undercut by your cautious tone here. I suggest you think things through before posting next time.

It's not a ringing endorsement. Just very glad to see them stand up to Jeff. I'm sure that Jeff now feels the same way a lot of Americans felt when we were sold out by Chief Justice Roberts. Jeff has told me numerous times to accept and move on - but he won't take his advice.

Not the whole School Board just these 5 --

Solon K. Webb
704 Childs Point Road
Annapolis, MD 21401
410-267-0326
Solon.Webb@aacps.org
Terms Ends: 2015
District 30

Kevin L. Jackson
3432 Dental Court
Edgewater, MD 21037
410-349-7465
kevin.jackson@aacps.org
Term Ends: 2014
At Large

Patricia R. Nalley
1927 Old Annapolis Blvd. Annapolis, MD 21409
410-757-0454
patricia.nalley@aacps.org
Term Ends: 2017
At Large

Amalie Brandenburg
316 Lynwood Drive
Severna Park, MD 21146
410-980-2165
amalie.brandenburg@aacps.org
Term Ends: 2016
District: 33A & 33B

Nick Lefavor
2644 Riva Road
Annapolis, MD 21401
410-271-2944
nicholas.lefavor@aacps.org
Term Ends: 2013
Student Member

Once again Jeff. How about the names of the members voting they way you would have it so that we can 'flip' more of them? Printing their names and addresses is tantamount to printing a bullseye on their backs. Is it your intention for some vigilante to go after them and/or their families? What kind of a moron are you? If anything happens to any of them I hope you get arrested and tried for depraved indifference. Enough is enough. This alone needs to be criminally investigated.

Earth to Ron. This info is directly from the Board's web site at http://www.aacps.org/aacps/boe/board/Board.asp. Time for you to beam back up to the mothership for an evaluation.

Ron to Jeff. Regardless of where else it can be found you pathetically re-printed it for your personal agenda and you endanger people. You could have, and should have, made your point by simply printing the 9 Board members names with their votes and not their addresses. These are good people speaking, serving and voting their conscience. And once again you would rather attack me than the true issue. Keep talking. Unfortunatly you'll never see the difference and will always look to attack others rather than speak the truth.

GOD BLESS THE BOARD AND THOSE THAT SERVE AS ELECTED OFFICIALS!

P.S. There's a waiting list for the Mothership. I checked.

Michael, at Monday night's POCA Board meeting, since he expressed interest, we did put Ronald's name forward again to fill the current vacancy on the Board of Directors. He received no votes, however.

It's not for a lack of running. I will run again at the annual election time and see if the POCA Nominating Committee keeps me off the ballot this time. And - for the record- if not for the 750 proxies of the apartment complex owners (non-of-whom vote here) I would be on the Board. I am not for land-fills Michael. I am for due process and equal rights. They were here first and they have a right to do what is legal and not have those who moved in afterwards infringe on those rights. Where would you have the trash get deposited if not in your neighborhood? As long as they are inspected and the laws are fully and forceable enforced it's their right.

Jeff - what does the POCA Election have to do with this blog? Why is the editor even allowing this nonsense?

Jeff - I spoke to a few Board members. Can you spell 'rigged'? i would mind your blogging if you told the trugh and gave other bloggers all the facts - your omission of facts is tantamount to outright lies. Is this what you learned in Washington?

There's an old joke: "How do you know when a politician or lawyer are lieing? Easy - their lips are moving." Jeff - you make a great politician. Give my best to Lou. If I ever want his opinion on anything I'll be sure to ask you for it.

Scott - there is no such thing as freedom of speech on blogs. This is not a professional jounalistic forum - just a blog that is monitored much as Germany did during the war. As as far a Michael is concerned: first he states that he has not found one person in Piney Orchard who supports the new road. I live in Piney Orchard and have made my position clear. Michael obviously has a learning disability. Mr. Andrade speaks for 15% of POCA. Take a look at the real votes he received. It's ironic that Michael would bane 'certain' individuals after he has put others down. I guess he, like Jeff, only want to hear from those that agree with him. How pathetic. Just like there are a lot of people who want to hear about ways to get involved and stop the road there are also individuals who want to hear about ways to help get it through.

I fully endorse Michael's idea. Please moderate the comments.

If you edit or 'shut people down' do it equally and fairly. The problem is that if you allow one or more individuals to libel others and refuse to allow them to respond you are in effect commiting liable and will end up defending yourself and your blog in court. Even you have a right to respond to libel. Shouldn't everyone?

Nothing is done until it is done. No firm committment has been made to build anything. Permission has been given to continue with talks about the school and permission has been given to go ahead with the 55+ communitty but I don't believe ground has been broken. As Jeff A. stated: he needs to 'turn' a Board member in order to reverse the school issue. He apparently wants to do this by intimidating school Board members that give their time and do what they believe is best. How about printing Jeff's address? Speak up for what you believe in and ask yourself why the 21st Delegation hasn't weighed in as of yet. They are you State elected officials. What is their position? Why aren't they at these meetings speaking up?

Ron, umm the 21st delegation has not weighed in on this because IT IS NOT A STATE GOVERNMENT ISSUE. It's a Board of Education matter, with some County planning and public works issue down the road. But Senator Jim Rosapepe did call me personally about this and came over to Piney Orchard a couple of Saturdays to chat about this and other things. And Delegates Frush and Pena-Melnyk were over a couple of weeks ago and they both oppose the landfill permit.

You are wrong again Ron. The decision means the developer and AACPS are going to start drafting a school agreement to bring it back to the Board of Education.

Chris, it's not a "free school". They get a credit to offset their impact fees. Using the AACPS formula of 1.8 elementary students per 10 new houses, a 700 pupil school would serve 3,889 new homes. The current education portion of the impact fees for a 2,500 -2,999 sq ft home is $7,721 per house, and the total impact fees are $12,176 per house. Thus, if you mulitiply these fees by the 3,889 homes that a 700 pupil elementary school would serve, it would generate $30 million in school impact fees with total impact fees of $47.3 million. The other thing to keep in mind is that this $38 million school figure is estimated value. No one has independently appraised the value of this land which is right next to former BBSS Turner Pit coal byproduct dump. We already know that the groundwater all around that area is contaminated from the coal ash dumping. Also, the construction value figures are not necessarily the actual costs being paid by the developers. So bottom line, there is no free lunch, and if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

The board seems to think its a good deal. The fact that 3 of the 4 dissenting votes are from odenton/Gamrills says it's NIMBY.

I don't often agree with Ronald, but he is dead on about your tactics.. It has inspired me to start a letter writing campaign of my own.

Chris. Hmm don't seem to able to dispute the math do you. The Board wasn't even made aware of the current over 55 covenant in any of the earlier presentations by the developers, nor had they even been given copies of that covenant . They also did not get a side-by-side of impact fees. Two of the votes we got were the President and Vice President of the Board. Why are you shilling so fervently for the developers Chris? Do you work for a home builder or elsewhere in the construction business by chance? If you want to associate yourself with Ronald, have at it dude.

Jeff, being but a humble citizen, Im sure you have better access to all the data as the POCA Pres. I can check you math, but only you know if the data points you use are skewed. Plus, since this is not a done deal yet, there is room for the county to get a better deal, that was the point of the vote today, now the can negotiate.

I shill for no one. My opinions are my own. I'm not not a developer, realtor, in the construction industry. I just a fan of creative solutions to problems, especially if they save the taxpayer

From the tone of your reply, all I can say about your online relationship with Scott & Ronald is it takes two to tango, or in this case three. I clearly said that I don't often agree with Ronald. For a person elected to an office, your sikin seems quite thin. You might want to work on that before you go up for Jamie's spot.

Chris, you just seem unusually passionate about this issue given where you currently live and the fact that you have said before that your kids are in private schools and you moved out of PO because of redistricting. As far as my math goes, it's all out there in the public domain - county impact fee rates, the school children per home assumption (the developer's presentation). I am just following the money around. And I am not sure what "problem" this proposal is solving, creative or otherwise? Actually, seems pretty self-serving of the developers to get around something they previously agreed to and which was previously approved by the county. If they simply did what they said they were going to do, we would not have any need for a new school, let alone the trojan horse road to it.

Chris - If anyone is shilling for anyone ask Jeff about the 3 owners of the 750 proxies on the POCA Board. Shut down this project and guess who benefits with the need for apartments both in POCA and by the MARC Station. Who does he really represent?

Jeff - 'Have at it dude'. And the beat goes on. No one gets to diagree with MR PRESIDENT. All hail the chief!

Ronald, you may as well try to stop the sun from coming up. We all know who controls POCA? It was set up that way. Does not really matter who the president is whether it is Jeff, Jamie befor him, the list goes on.

I found living under an HOA unbearable and got out. HOA's make local government look good.

Jeff, my kids are still in county schools, though this school will not affect them. The problem you don't see is a landowner being prevented from developing their land. Do you think beople buy land just to look at other trees? (apologies to the Sierra Club)

Chris W. - never thought I'd be a supporter of yours but I do find myself agreeing more and more with your take on things. One of my many, many problems is that I have a need to stand up when people are lied to or manipulated. I inherited my home and did not choose to live here. But now that I am here I believe that one of my purposes in life is to be a thorn in the side of people that believe they can get away with it all. There is nothing POCA can do to me that wasn't done in VietNam. I doubt that anyone on the POCA Board would understand that.

Take care and keep speaking out. Someone out there is listening.

LOL

Ok correction Benoit was on the board, but not the prez.

Chris -
With respect to the denial of rights to landowners - are you against zoning laws? Do you think landowners should be free to build as many housing units on any piece of property that they wish? Do you think they should pay for roads, schools, and infrastructure to support those houses? Should everyone be free to put a landfill wherever they wish?

Dave, no I am not against zoning laws, but we are talking about a housing development that was approved as 55 and over. The developer is looking to change that and is helping to mitigate the impact.

The land fill is a whole different story. One of the reasons I am for this proposal is I firmly believe that the more land is developed as residential, the more likely we will be able to defeat the landfill proposal.

One of the reasons landfills are prevelant in west county is the sparse population in the past madeit easier to get them approved.

Tim, since the covenant is public record, perhaps you could do a story highlighting the salient points of the covenant?

I don't know about majority, but they certainly are silent.

Couldn't agree more. But if you look closely you'll see that I, Ronald, respond to Jeff when he tells half-truths and pushes outright lies. Jeff on the other hand just likes to run his mouth and push his agenda. I guess Jeff learned this while working for the government.

When Jeff stops blogging as a 'speaker for all' I'll stop responding.

They're not as silent as you may think Jeff. And Scott - even I have to agree that you have an ax to grind, as I apparently do as well. Isn't it nice that Jeff constantly gives us an opportunity to do so.

Daniel, as Jeff says it seems to me that the big developers are manipulating the situation to their advantage. Please make sure the FOTPIA hears that not everyone in your area is on board with the developer's plans.

Daniel, as a Piney Orchard resident I definitely feel your pain. They want to put the Cunningham landfill less than 1000 feet from my townhouse! I think that if FOTPIA hangs together with Piney Orchard, you might be surprised how much we can get changed in this area.

Daniel - please let us know what happens at the meeting. Check on line with AA County and let us know how many permits are there - I would be curious as well.

Daniel ...The only permits on the property are State Surface Mining Permits. That permit was in place for the past couple of decades as sand and gravels were extracted. Those permits required sediment and erosion control plans....thus the sediment basins and silt fences that are in place now. You probably have seen that the site is mostly barren and unevenly graded which is common at this type of site despite the fact that Maryland Department of the Environments Standards for Erosion and Sediment Control requires better. State Surface mining inspectors and administration are not holding the current surface mine permittees to the MDE standards. Because the mining plan requires reclamation of all mined properties the developer will be able to begin grading activities and get alot done on the property without county permits.

Yes, hilariously Anne Arundel county allows the student member full voting rights. This, in combination with the unelected composition of the board, makes a mockery of democracy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for students and learning, but the point of being a student is that you have things to learn - you are not ready for grown-up responsibility. Teenagers just don't have the street smarts to realize when they are being manipulated.

Dave - maybe a 'child's point of view' is exactly what the adults need. Maybe he is the only one without an agenda just listening to arguments and making a theoretical decision. The whole political process is nothing more than absurd manipulation of facts in order to justify a specific political agenda. His view point is the one I want to hear. Glad to see AA County leading the way.

The mailing address for the student, which again is directly from the contact page of the AACPS web site http://www.aacps.org/html/BoardOfEducation/board-email-listing.asp is the Board of Education's, Ronbo.

What's with the Ronbo? How childish. How about 'nana a boo boo' or some other juvenile comment. The issue is that you want to "turn" appointed officials (thank you for the correction). If you truly speak for the POCA HOA as a whole then you speak for those of us that are for the school, road, and such. You supposedly represent me and that is the truly sad part. Either all or none of the addresses. Your actions were inappropriate at best and criminal at worst thereby putting all of POCA at risk.

Contact information - yes. Official e-mail or Board address. Not his personal address. And by the same token why not all the Board members votes and contact information. The issue is in Jeff's selecting to list those that he wants to 'turn'. If you print one you should print them all so that the ones that voted against can be held accountable as well.

What say ye?

How about addressing the entire issue Tim instead of coming to Jeff's defense? Do you as Editor think he was right in printing the contact information for only those Board members that were on his side or should he have printed them all? I believe he should not have printed any.

Thank you Tim. I am totally suprised by the vote. I believed that it would be delayed and wonder why it wasn't. I think that pressure will be brought on Board members by a vocal minority and that the new vote would be more in line with a 6-3 reversal. I hope that it is well attended by both sides.

No need for name calling. As I told Jeff the mother ship is full and there is a waiting list. If Scott has a drinking problem so be it. It is not an issue for this blog. And what were you doing there all the times you saw him? I don't think Scott is against the store - I think he is against the way that it got it's license and permission to sell there. My understanding of Scott's concerns were have the store within range of the pool, nursing home and child care center and any influence a member of the POCA Board might have had in all of this - not the fact that they sell liquor.

Chris,

You realize that the owner of the dump is literally donating land to help make this school and road happen? Do you think he would do that if he perceived it as a threat to his dump?

Excellent point. Take POCA for example. With 2,000 + homeowners they allow three people that aledge to control 750+ proxies by virtue of the apartments there to place 7 members on the POCA Board. Voter apathy is exactly what AA County is about. Piney Orchard is getting exactly what Piney Orchard has asked for (and I live in Piney Orchard). There isn't enough medication on earth to help address this type of voter apathy disease we are all facing.

Ron,

Cunningham owns the 2 acres that is going to be given to GORC park to make the Evergreen road extension.

One possible explanation is that he wants to make an alternative access point for his landfill - right off of GORC park!

Cunningham used to be the operator of the Capitol raceway, but recently he was booted off the contract by the landowner there. What's unclear is if he is going to be allowed access via Capitol Raceway road off of Rt.3 for his landfill.

It's possible that the Evergreen Road extension could be the thing that enables the landfill to operate!

So we should prevent one person from making a profit on their property so that YOU can make a profit on yours.

How convenient for YOU.

Chris W,

Life is complicated. It turns out that the property owners of the dump, the road, and the school, might actually generate a profit while creating a loss for the surrounding community.

In particular, for the case of the dump, it's quite likely that much more money will be lost in housing value than profit earned by putting trash in a hole.

This is why we have government, so that these kinds of global suboptimal outcomes can be avoided. If you don't want government to tell you want to do, you can move to Somalia, where people just do what they want.

As for normal humans, we generally like land use regulation where the government or some large institution decides how to allocate scare land resources for the maximum benefit of everyone.

I don't support the dump. Never have, never will. This issue is not about a dump. It is about a school and a housing development. The talk about the dump is just more hyperbole.

My argument has always been that the more homes they build, the more homeowners there are to fight the land fill. It is my opinion that the housing developments will help prevent the landfill from he being approved. It makes little sense now, it will make even less sense when surrounded by housing.

Chris. The related issue of the dump(s) are not hyperbole at all. They are directly related. The right of ways for the road would be granted by two land owners -- Cunningham Excavating which has the current special exception for a rubble landfill and BBSS, Inc. which has an asphalt plant and owns land that was rezoned as part of last year's contraversial up-zoning (see http://odenton.patch.com/articles/citizens-petition-to-overturn-district-1-4-rezoning). Both these parties could seek to use the road for their industrial activites. Likewise, with regards to the improvements down near Two Rivers (see http://www.greatercroftoncouncil.org/landfill/halleorder.html) that would likely enable Halle to toll its special exception as it goes through state permit for the Chesapeake Terrace Landfill. Chris, get your facts straight on the topics at hand before you accuse people of using hyperbole.

Chris,

You appear to be arguing that Piney Orchard should accept the school and road extension, because it will hurt the same entities who are donating land to make the school and road extension happen.

Please resolve my confusion by explaining why you think that the landfill owner and the school land owner will be hurt by the plan that they are proposing?

Of course the school land owner wont be hurt. He's getting to build without the age restriction.

Neither will the landfill owner, as signified by his donation of land to the project.

Just to be clear, the school land donor is BBSS, Inc, owned by the Baldwins of Reliable Contracting. BBSS, Inc was fined by the State and banned from dumping fly ash by the County in the very dump that Jeff was writing about above. They also operate an asphalt plant adjacent to the property. Doesn't it seem reasonable to think that these landowners are going to want to use the Evergreen Road extension for their industrial purposes, such as filling a 70 acre landfill directly adjacent to the road?

Thus, this school provides the pretext to build the road, which provides the pretext to provide access to the dump. Thus, it is quite logical for those opposed to the dump to fight the school, and thereby, the road.

And the road improvements will happen regardless of whether the age restriction is lifted.

Correct?

No, they would not. It is my understanding that Halle does not have the right of ways itself, nor would the Conway road improvement be priority without Two Rivers.

Note that the Forks of the Patuxent agreement with the Two Rivers developers omits any mention about talking with Halle or the landfill. It's pretty clear to me that Two Rivers and Halle are probably in negotiations over how to create a right-of-way that would suit both of their needs.

Jeff,

Two rivers is already approved with the age restriction. Do you think people over 55 dont need the roads? Of course they do. So if this proposal is blocked, they will still improve Conway road. Am I missing something? I don't think so.

The developers are now crying that they made a bad decision on agreeing to the over 55 covenant. If they don't build the 2,060 over 55 units, the covenant states that's it's much lower density use on the subject lots -- RA, which is 1 house per 20 acres -- and therefore no big need for road improvements. So yeah you missed the point. Do your homework before you pick fights with people who do.

Quote from previous poster -"Do your homework before you pick fights with people who do." All I can say is "What a pompous jerk."

Jeff, I'm not trying pick a fight with you. You seriously need to have a thicker skin.

Geez.

Now to your point:

If they build it AS APPROVED they will need to make the improvements anyways. That is the point, and your the one who is missing it.

Jeff,

So when are you going to get your facts strait? A few comments above you say the landfill can use the new road for their operations. Your post here cites the fact that their approval REQUIRES that hey use Conway road.

Which is it Jeff.

This is my point. You all keep shifting your focus whenever someone points out any inconvenient facts.

Let me further educate you Chris. The proposed Tolson/Cunningham landfill would be near the proposed school, the proposed road to the school would be on a right of way across the north edge of the mining/landfill area. The land to be donated to GORC would come from the lot where the landfill is proposed and would be immediately adjacent to the landfill. The proposed Chesapeake Terrace landfill would be down by Forks of the Patuxent and Wilson Town and has tolled its own special exception which I provided the link to, which requires a number of road improvements as well as securing specific rights of way. As Daniel correctly pointed out, Two Rivers development would likely elminate some of those requirements for Halle on the proposed Chesapeake Terrace landfill. The only one I see shifting his focus is you Chris. There are a number of reasons to oppose changes to Two Rivers and its proposed school, and some of them are intertwined with the two unnecessary proposed landfills that Piney Orchard, Forks of the Patuxent, Woodwardville, Wilson Town, Evergreen Road, and Courts of Four Seasons residents have been fighting with other local groups like Crofton First, GOIA, and Greater Gambrills Improvement Association.

Gee Scott, you might consider a better alias.

I'd like an answer from the Patch on why they allow these troll accounts to be set up and approve their submissions. pATCH has turned into the National Enquirer or Anne Arundel County and I'm slowing finding it an embarrassment to read. Low standards garner little respect.

Daniel,
It really sounds to me like the landfill owners are trying to get the County to approve large industrial roads to get their operations started. Beware a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Couldn't agree more Daniel. This certainly appears to be a Piney Orchard Patch. Commentators appearing to have access to profiles, calling people trolls and knuckleheads, identifying school board members that need to be 'turned', racist comments, outright threats. I think it was Chris W. that told me that all that had to be done was to Flag a comment and the editor could delete it. Maybe commentators would be more civil if others where up front about their positions and gave us all the facts. I have nothing against Jeff posting a school borad vote but I think his position would have been better served by posting all the votes and not just the ones he took offense with. And why would the Editor immediatly comment in his defense? Is there an of alliance that we do not know about? I've spent a lot of time researching comments in this venue and, to be honest, am not very impressed with what gives me the appearance of one-side journalism (and I use that word loosley).

Jeff - maybe you can explaint to me, and others, how it is that you seem to have a lot more information than most of us do about the PATCHs coming improvements and how you managed to view profiles. I do not remember ever giving the PATCH permission to share my profile and would not be happy with them if they did.

I agree that personal attacks do not serve any legitimate purpose and more than one account is curious. I am for the communitty having a say on roads, schools, landfills and HOA decisions.

Hopefully this will include native trees and plants as opposed to Chinese and Japanese versions that look nice but do absolutly nothing for birds and other wildlife AND definitley not butterfly traps.

Ron, welcome back. Thought that was you. No alliances here. Just learn how to use site software.

Patrick H....I couldn't agree with you more. It certainly seems as if there is a closer than usual relationship between the Editor and certain posters. And, if you're looking for impact on HOA decisions, you've come to the wrong place. Piney Orchard is run by one individual who has been put in his/her place by the owners of the apartment buildings in the community and subsequently appointed, or had elected by those same apartment owners, other Board members who drink his/her Kool-Aid. This person runs with an iron fist and has been known to be rude and condescending to citizens who express concerns with certain issues. There is virtually no way for members of the HOA to provide meaningful input into HOA decisions. Quite sad. But, it all has to do with how the HOA by-laws were written. Que sera, sera!

Scott and Ron, wouldn't it just be easier for you two guys to exchange numbers and talk on the phone, instead of going through these charades? Or maybe you can just go out to a quiet dinner together...

%Stephen K.
Jeff apparently only does what the homeowners allow him to do. It appears as if there are enough homeowners that, if they decided to vote, could remove him and anyone else they choose to remove. The apathy and laziness of the homeowners is what concerns me. Who wants to live in an HOA where the sheep allow themselves to be led to the slaughter house? It is plain to see from his recenlty posted comment to Ron and Scott that he would rather put forward innuendos suggesting
get-to-gethers than answer or address any of the questions put forward to him by you, me, Scott, Chris, David and others. Like all politicians they tend to change the subject rather than answer the question. It is best just not to respond to individuals like this. The real issue remains those that allow him to remain in office. I'm just saying.

Scott, Ron,

It makes me sad that people such as yourselves would take time out of your day to promote a cause that is going to bring hardship to your neighbors. Words mean things - sometimes they can be used to harm instead of help.

The fact is that POCA has not been contacted and is not aware of any action to change covenants in Maple Ridge at Piney Orchard HOA. Kaine Homes' web site http://www.kainehomes.com/anne-arundel-county-new-homes/maple-ridge/ continues to list this as 55+. Maple Ridge at Piney Orchard HOA has its its own covenants, which can be amended by a majority of the homeowners living within that HOA. POCA has no veto or approval authority over such changes, but the changes may not conflict or weaken the overaching Piney Orchard covenants. Also, It is my understanding that if a 55+ plus community were to change its covenants to a lower age, it would no longer be covered by the Housing for Older Persons Act exemption to the Fair Housing Act's prohibition on discrimination based on family status. Since the County Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance exemption for the school test only applies to residential subdivisions restricted to persons 55 or older without resident minor children, I am not sure how such a change would fall under the APFO. But it may be a moot point, because under the APFO currently, the school serving this area, Four Seasons Elementary, is "closed" on the School Utilization Chart. Any issues Mr. DiBiasio has with "illegal" real estate signs, should be directed to the County's Department of Inspections and Permits.

Those heinously ugly real estate directional signs are legal from Friday to Monday morning. Ostensibly to direct weekend house hunters.
They are only illegal if they remain erected outside of those hours:
"Temporary directional signs. ... A temporary directional sign shall be self-supporting and may be posted only on weekends between 8:00 a.m. on Friday and 9:00 a.m. on the following Monday or between 9:00 a.m. on County, State, or federal holidays and 9:00 a.m. on the following day. Temporary directional signs may be placed within a County right-of-way if the signs are located at least three feet from any curbed or paved area."

Mayor of Piney Orchard needs to get a life.

Don't count your chickens yet the eggs haven't hatch. That will happen on Friday.

Scott DiBiasio,
You are the only guy who misspells "Toalson" in that way.

Two sides to everything Mr. Mayor. I'm not sure I would have supported any of this 25 years ago. Simply enforcement of current laws and regulations would have taken the air out of a lot of this in the beginning.

Daniel,

On a non-Piney Orchard-related topic, do you have an opinion on the WB&A trail? Do you think it should be completed to Bowie on the existing easement, or do you think the alternative route proposed by the Two Rivers developers is more fair to the existing land owners in the area?

Dave I think the trail is a bad idea all together.Has anything good ever happen on it in Severna Park!!! And they want to hook up to PG County. What I've seen it is going on Wilsontown side of Two Rivers then down Conway to hook up with the existing trail.Never going into or on Two Rivers property.My neighbor works at Rutledge Elementry or something like that on RT. 197.He has told me the kids there can't wait for it. So they can come across the river to get here..And then to you.

%Daniel - interesting take on the B & A Trail. Have there been problems at that school that we should be aware of? Do you really believe that the trail would be used as a haven for stalkers and muggers as well or just a possible escape route for undesirables. This sounds as if your advocating some type of segregation. What is the real issue here so that I can make an informed decision?

TOLERANCE - PASS IT ON

Daniel, please ignore the trolls (ron, scott, patrick, "mayor"). I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that topic.

So PG county elementary school students are going to ride up the trail on their bikes to rob us?

Wow. All I can say is wow.

I agree. The minority ruins it for the majority. The sad part is that those in the minority usually get the majority of the coverage. Dismissing those that you disagree with is one thing. Refusing to address the issues/questions and preventing them from speaking is not what this country is about (or at least I hope not). I watch for those that ask questions while refusing to answer any. If we them we win.

Yes to the new road, yes to the new school, yes to the members of the School Board that voted for what they thought was best, and yes to a properly monitored and enforced land fill.

I noticed a typo in my last response. The last sentence at the end of the 1st paragraph should have said: If we ignore them we win.

Sorry

Unless you have factual knowledge on which to base your claims that people are using fake names, aliases, trolliases, etc., I STRONGLY suggest that you quit accusing people. I, for one, can tell you that I only post on here using my real name.

The chutzpah of some people is quite remarkable. The President of POCA is asking someone to positively identify themselves. I hope you all will remember this when this person runs for political office. You might want to call him Sheriff Arpaio.

% Karen Q. - Thank you commenting. Aren't you afraid of being asked for your full name? How about your address? I'm not sure what the real agenda here is but just as Dave put it: ignore "the trolls". What is a troll? And why is Dave now listing names without proof of identity? Until the President of POCA answers the questions put to him by commentators why would others answer his? Sad that Piney Orchard residents don't exercise their voting rights and remove him. POCA's president putting HOA homeowners at risk by personally attacking an individual that, according to Jeff, may be allowed to comment. Just a political tactic = if you cann't attack message then attack the messanger. The President of POCA identifying a commentator by first and last name in what appears an attempt to create a lynch mob mentality. Is he so brazen that he dares making public other information about this individual that could put a commentator's safety, and that of his family, at jeopardy? How about we all just stick to the issues and stop making it personal? Where is the editor Mr. Lemke during all of this? Isn't it his job and that of the PATCH, to stop this? Dave - please reread the comment made by Daniel and tell me how you think it came across. Who is coming across the river in order to 'get me'? The issue should be better lighting and more police patrols. Maybe even some type of outreach program. "They" can come across the river and visit me any time. Isn't this is America?

%Karen Q. - Don't lower yourself Jeff's level. His rantings are the best thing that has happened to Piney Orchard. Even his backers are backing away from him. His animosity and anger are escalating and he is self-destructing. I agree completley with your assessment of the situation and wonder why commentators are not filing formal complaints with The PATCH (a google search will show you how to complain to corporate HQ) about him and Mr. Lemke's refusal to protect the integrity of this blog. If I see one more attack I will have my attorneies deal with it. It's unfortunate that his rantings have diminished any and everything he may have said about the new development, the roads, the proposed school, the B & A trail and other issues that were the point of this article. He apparently believes everyone is out to get him thus his focus on accessing 'troll accounts'. What is a troll? Do you think that a formal complaint to the POCA Board of Directors and served on POCAs attorney would warrant a story by Mr. Lemke? Ignore Jeff and file a complaint with PATCH Corporate in NYC if you want to put him in his place. Until he responds to the questions asked of him he doesn't deserve a response to his questions. Do you really think Hitler is a good comparison to Jeff?

How does everyone else feel about this?

Take care, have a great weekend and let's work together to have real fairness.

God Bless

%Karen Q. - I've know Jim for a long time and he, as well as other frineds of mine, were one of the reasons I decided to re-locate to this area. Let's hope he has an understandable answer.