Piney Orchard Hears More Details on Two Rivers Plan
Developers and school officials met with the community for about three hours on Wednesday night.
Photos
Residents in Piney Orchard on Wednesday got a closer look at plans for more than 2,000 new homes and a new elementary school planned for the southern Odenton/Gambrills area.
During a three-hour meeting, community board members and residents raised a series of concerns about proposals from Koch Homes and Classic Community Corp., developers of the project known as Two Rivers.
I’d like to provide a rundown of some of the community’s questions and concerns, and how development and school officials responded.
Where would the school be located, and why?
Developers have offered to build an elementary school valued at about $38 million, in order to accommodate students from the Two Rivers development. The school would be located just to the south off the Waugh Chapel Towne Centre and to the northeast of the actual Two Rivers property.
Residents wondered why the school was not located in Two Rivers itself. Developers responded that it was very difficult to find an adequate spot of land for it to go.
“Trust me, there weren’t many options available,” said Gary Koch, president of Koch Homes.
Alex Szachnowicz, chief operating officer of Anne Arundel County Public Schools, said that from the school district’s perspective, it’s better to have the school further north so it can serve students from other local developments in the pipeline.
“We’re looking ahead,” Szachnowicz said.
Wasn’t Two Rivers supposed to be an age-restricted development?
For years, the developers had planned to make the Two Rivers project for people aged 55 and over. In fact, they signed a convenant agreement with the Forks of the Patuxent Improvement Association in 2006. But the developer said economy and market conditions changed, and they’ve asked that the restriction be lifted.
But are they allowed to lift the age restriction?
Yes and no. It comes down to the complexities of adequate public facilities laws, as well as the deal the developers struck with the Forks of the Patuxent Improvement Association.
Generally, new developments can’t go forward unless there is school capacity. And right at this moment, there isn’t any in the schools serving that area. But, Szachnowicz said upcoming expansions to Crofton Elementary and Crofton Middle Schools will provide enough capacity for the age restriction to be lifted.
A perhaps larger question is whether the Forks of the Patuxent Improvement Association will change the deal it had with the developer to keep the project age-restricted. The developers and the association are currently in negotiations.
“We are currently in talks, no agreement has been made and that’s all the comment I can make,” association president Sue Meyer said.
Will Evergreen Road be extended? And if so, what would that mean?
The developers want to extend Evergreen Road from Maryland Route 3 to Strawberry Lake Way. This would provide a way to get from Piney Orchard to the shopping centers, but also allow buses from the Two Rivers development to get to the school without going on Route 3.
The road would take away about 0.9 acres from the south edge of GORC Park, but the developers said they would add about 2.3 acres by expanding the park to the east.
Under plans presented Wednesday, students from the Two Rivers development would be bused up Patuxent Road and then east onto Strawberry Lake Way, then onto an extended portion of Evergreen Road.
School and development officials said they examined whether a road could be built to connect the Two Rivers school to the development in a more direct way, but said steep terrain and wetlands would make construction there nearly impossible.
Wouldn’t that be a long bus ride for the kids?
Residents noted that the bus ride for the Two Rivers students would be much longer than that of other students in the area. Szachnowicz acknowledged this, saying it would be about 7 miles at its longest distance. But, he said it would not be longer than rides for students in South County, or those who ride to magnet or IB programs outside their area.
“Seven miles is not an egregious distance,” he said.
But what about traffic?
Some community members have expressed concern about traffic at the intersection of Strawberry Lake Way and Evergreen Road, and a rise in cars in traveling through Piney Orchard to get to the Waugh Chapel shopping centers.
Koch and Classic Communities have engaged Ken Schmid of Traffic Concepts to take a look at potential impacts from the road. He said Wednesday that the group has performed a very informal traffic study, but he declined to share it. Schmid said a more in-depth traffic impact study would be performed in the future and submitted to the county. It would be the subject of future community meetings.
So, what’s next?
Development and school officials plan to meet with more community associations in Gambrills and Crofton.
The Anne Arundel County Board of Education will review a concept plan for the school on Aug. 22, and could vote on the plan at its following meeting in September. If the concept plan is approved, the developers and the school system could enter into talks for a construction agreement.
Meanwhile, the development team continues to talk with the Forks of the Patuxent Improvement Association regarding the age-restriction, and with the county regarding the Evergreen Road extension.
Kim W.
7:36 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
The Crofton/Waugh Chapel/Piney Orchard communities do not need more homes, what we "do need" is a High School. So, we can stop having our kids bus’ed all over AA county just to go to school. All building new homes is going to accomplish, is to give us yet more traffic on Route 3.
Ronald
9:25 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
There are some very good, and accredited, home school agencies that can help you teach your child the basics. How about taking off from work andstaying home in order to raise your kids. Then we don't need any additional schools and can save even more tax dollars. I am sick and tired of paying for your kids to go to public school all the while listening to you cry.
Double D
8:32 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
More traffic on Strawberry Lake Way, perfect. Don't worry they won't be on Strawberry Lake for very long since cars routinely drive 10,15,20 mph over the speed limit. Can't seem to get any police radar set up there, AA County could put some $$ into their budget by running radar for a week on Strawberry Lake.... if they would just write more tickets we wouldn't need all these darn slot machines and we'd have safer roads.
Ronald
9:27 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Sounds like a potential advocate for SPEED CAMERAS. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Rebecca Feibel
8:58 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Perhaps I missed this, what is the timeline here? I think intersecting Strawberry Lake will essentially make that section of PO not PO anymore. I live in that section and I would not want to live here anymore and pay all the fees we pay, including a high mortgage, if we do not have the relative calm that is afforded us now. And,I am guessing I am not alone.
Ronald
9:28 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
You are not alone. People will leave as soon as they can afford to get out from under their upside down mortgages. New homes sell first so be prepared to take a bath.
Chris W
9:03 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
I see Kim, now that you have your home in a new community, they should shutdown building and not allow any more? How nice for you.
You don't live in the country, you live in the suburbs.
Ronald
9:23 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
This is the FIRST developer that has seen fit to talk to Communitty HOAs. They should be thanked for that. They are adding to GORC park, putting a school and easing traffic flow on the already congested routes we all use. They could have waited until the project was complete BEFORE moving to change it to an unrestricted development. They choose instead to be upfront and do it now AND to ask for input. My concern is that this gives a boost to the need for more landfills - guess where?
Our County Council sucks big time. Why isn't there a Committee that is seriously looking at growth in the County and not just payoffs and political stepping stones. And why is this developer even talking to HOAs instead of the real homeowners. POCA represents less than 20% of the real voters in this area and the board is conprised of memeber that work directly for the proxie voters and members that got less than 20 votes without the proxies of three carpet-baggers that don't vote here.
If the developer would fund an additional 3 police officers for a period of 5 years they would have my vote and my support.
Double D
9:39 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
You don't ease route 3 and other major road traffic by funneling it through a neighborhood. You really believe they are going to replace/expand the portion or GORC park they take? By handing over some useless space covered in trees you aren't doing anything for GORC, they need to clear and grade the land for field use, that way GORC can expand the number of teams that practice there making for some additional traffic on SLW to go along with the new traffic from the shopping centers on Evergreen, or just the commuters that decide they'll use it for their commute and drive 20 mph over the speed limit. I trust a developer to come through with the school and worthwhile space for GORC Park and a vaild traffic study as much as I trust a politician. Break ground on the school and when the walls are going up you can have your age restriction lifted (Oh you're afraid if you do that the county might not lift your restriction??? Well welcome to the same fears you put into residents with your promises).....The Evergreen rd cut through forget about it, little Jimmy and his school bus will do just fine on Rt 3, are they really saying that kids in school buses on rt 3 aren't safe?
Ronald
7:40 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
I think that they will get away with whatever they can get away with. The attempted to meet with the POCA Board in secret - I will give Jeff A. on the POCA Board his dues and thank him for bringing this to light - and i am just wondering what incentives they are offering the HOA Board that they have the 55 and over agreement with. Until we get a council or state representative with balls enough to hold them accountable you are correct in thinking that they will walk away after doing as little as possible. I'm sure this new development has an HOA with class A and B voters so that they can control the complex until it is completly sold out. Ever wonder why people go 'postal'? Here is a good example of why. However, I agree with Chris W. - this is not about Piney Orchard. It is about Odenton and $$$$$$$$$. Nothing else matters.
Chris W
10:10 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
There are more residents in Odenton than just the Piney Orchard residents.They don't own the entire area even if they feel they should have complete controll over it.
Where do you think much of the traffic is going on rt 3? I'll give you a hint, Piney Orchard is on the list. Traffic on Waugh Chapel road at rush hour gets fairly thick. This would certainly help matters.
Rebecca Feibel
10:54 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
I appreciate your comment. I often drive on Waugh Chapel during rush hour times and it can get busy but not unreasonably so, in my opinion. We are talking about a road that will cut into Piney Orchard so that is why it is of upmost importance to PO residents. If I wanted a house on a busy road my family would have moved to less expensive section in AA County. I think there is an assumption of protection from things like this when you buy a home in a planned community, that is one of the reasons homeowners are willing to pay more for their homes, pay fees, and pay higher taxes due to higher priced homes, then similarily sized and dates homes in the surrounding community.
Chris W
11:32 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
I do understand your thinking. I am a former PO Home owner. I left when the county redisticted my side of PO out of the school which was one of the main reasons we moved there. That was done for the greater good of the community. That is the same reason this will also go through.
Clint
12:59 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
This is not just a PO issue. I've lived in 4 Seasons for over 25 years on a quiet cul-de-sac backing up to a woodline. Judging from the maps, this road will run right along my backyard. My quality of life will go right down the tubes.
Chris W
1:57 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Perhaps! but you don't own the woods do you?
DSmith
11:47 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Whoohoo! More property tax collections for AACo/MD! Home buyers, please educate yourself about previous land use for this area before considering buying a new home from Koch and sending your children to a school built on these grounds. Personal research/education is far more revealing than builder/realtor and county disclosure practices. As for the rest, well, the Rt3 corridor is what it is and will only continue to progressively get worse as long as politicians and developers dictate how you live...your choice!
Ronald
7:42 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Unfortunatly we have no choice unless we band together. Citizens coalition anyone?
Dave
10:08 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Tim, you did not write anything about the two planned landfills in the area. Did that topic come up at all in the 3 hour meeting?
momof3
8:45 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Ronald is correct in that the affected communities do need to ban together in order for their voice to actually count. Clint, in addition to your quality of life, your property value may also take a hit- permanently. Double D,Rebecca, Kim - traffic congestion will get worse and it is a huge factor in the lifestyle of the "suburbs", basically turning suburban living into city living without all the cool, interesting places of city-life. The secret meetings of the developer with anybody , even the Forks HOA- sounds like potential trouble. In addition, sadly I have lost FAITH in the AA COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. Dr. Maxwell is unfortunately totalling running the show, with the Board rarely, if ever, going against him and the parents having absolutely no power and no effective voice. So don't count on them to be looking out for your kids.
Bruce Cole
11:53 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Looks like an interesting proposition, and I appreciate the information from The Patch. We have every right to ask for more transparency. We're making life decisions here, and the decisions are mostly in the hands of people who don't have to live with the final outcomes. What of the landfills? On Charles Koch's "Trust me, there weren't many options available," I say thank you sir, but what were those options and why were they worse than the proposal? On Sue Meyer's “We are currently in talks, no agreement has been made and that’s all the comment I can make,” is that all the comment you CAN make, all the comment you WANT to make, or all the comment they WILL LET you make? What are the major factors under discussion and where do you stand on them. It's fair for your membership to know. Mr. Schmid, why won't you share your informal traffic study? How about a summary of the findings so far and details on how the additional study will improve its quality? Mr. Szachnowicz, what, where and when are those other developments you speak of? How far along in the process are they? Might they face the same uncertainties Two Rivers is with the change from seniors only? I'm not saying I think anything untoward is going on here, but the absence of information breeds distrust, especially in those who have been burned before. If the article didn't capture everything completely and accurately, then maybe some of the above have been addressed. Thank you.