Politically motivated'? 'Criminally investigated'? Really? How about TRANSPARENCY? How about CITIZEN INPUT? No matter where you stand on this issue, it should be vetted by the public. I don't see how you cannot understand that.

Jeff, Good answer. Speaking of taxpayers, aren't our dollars being wasted on a school board that, in addition to what youu said, elects to spend their time + our money pursuing something that could be cancelled? If the Patuxent Association elects to uphold the 55+ age resttriction covenant, the board's time, efforts + tax payer's dollars will have all been wasted pursuing a school that Koch won't build.. Obviously, the board fails to use simple common sence or cents.

On the other hand they could negotiate a great deal, something hey could not do until they voted.

Right, Dave. The issue wasn't ripe for a decision because the age-restriction has not been lifted - that was an inconvenient truth I guess. As far as negotations go, the terms of the unsolicited proposal were essentially accepted. Now they go back behind closed doors and work up a written school agreement dotting all "I"s and crossing the T's. Don't expect to see any changes in the location or school size. There's no "great deal" to be negotiated from here. Since the property is being purchased from BBSS, which allowed Constellation Energy to dump 4.25 millions of combustible coal byproducts in unlined pits across the street from the proposed school and at the Waugh Chapel pit (see http://www.severnriver.org/press/flyash.htm) which contain "chemicals like lead, arsenic and beryllium and other substances that can cause cancer and other health problems" , it will be interesting to see how they handle liability for any future health or contamination issues in the land documents for the property being "given" for the school. Last year, BBSS was fined for dumping outside of the original site (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/06/22/md-fly-ash-dump-site-fined/). Other than me bringing it up in my testimony, not a single Board of Education member asked any questions about the dump site across the street.

Jeff, are you unaware that Piney Orchard itself is built in close proximity to a former super fund site just across the rail line? You could stand on the site and hit the PO water tower with a sling shot. Are you similarly concerned about that?

The tone of the opposition to this is getting more and more shrill. I half expect that the next calamity to befall the population if this is approved will be a plague of locusts.

Chris W,

Are you saying that because Piney Orchard was built near a superfund site that Piney Orchard has no right to protest more pollution being put into the area?

As for Jeff being shrill, it seems to me he provided facts, and you provided an opinion based on your emotional reaction to his post. I suggest consulting a dictionary.

Chris here's another example of you not having your facts straight. The only Superfund sites in Odenton are both at Ft. Meade (http://www.epa.gov/reg3hwmd/super/sites/MD9210020567/index.htm) and http://www.epaosc.org/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=908 and seem to be nearer to your house than anywhere in Piney Orchard. As far as your use of the term "former Superfund site" -- not sure exactly where you are referring to. When a Superfund site has been cleaned up, there is a detailed set of steps for deleting it from the National Priorities List (see http://www.epa.gov/superfund/programs/npl_hrs/nploff.htm) so that it can returned to safe use. Fact is that we should all be concerned by dumps, expanded mining (which leads to new dumps), and the previous history and problems on any land around these parts which gets "donated" to the County. Maybe you all remember this little gem 4 years ago, the last time there was major donation of land to the County in our area (http://arundel.blogspot.com/2008/01/breaking-news-odenton-dump-just-tip-of.html). So I think I have a right to raise concerns when developers try to site a school right across the street from a coal ash dump that was shut down because it contaminated the surrounding area.

Jeff, I corrected the issue "former" issue in an earlier below.

Now. If you are familiar with where the Amtrak maintenance facility is, you should know that the water tower that servers PO and the surrounding area (it even says Piney Orchard on it) is adjacent to the rail yard and roughly a few hundred yards from the landfill on fort Meade just across the tracks. The southern edge of this landfill is close to the newer 55+ housing off the main circle.

I am not unconcerned about the landfills, I just think its inevitable when it is in a more rural setting. Again, I think development is our friend in this instance.

Well said.

Chris,

I'm sure as soon as Jeff has the power to compel the state and federal governments into cleaning up pollution on their own land, he would do so.

Are you arguing that because Piney Orchard sits near an old Army landfill, landfills are therefore harmless to schools?

Are you also arguing that everyone who does not want something near his home has no valid argument?

Dave Look, we would all like our own house and/or subdivision to be the only one around. An oasis surrounded by trees and meadows. The problem is, you and other folks in PO bought a house within sptitting distance of an operating sand and gravel mine. Many of these mines end up as dumps. Both the landfills started the permitting process years ago. As they say buyer beware. Perhaps you need to do a little more research next time. I am against the landfills, but my sympathy is limited.

Also please explain why if the Cunningham property is accessible via the race track entrance, why would Cunningham need this road.

Chris: First, both proposed landfills were granted special exceptions two decades ago despite widespread community opposition to both. Under the County ordinance at the time, they had two years to implement the special exception which neither of them did. These special exceptions have been granted extension after extension, and at the same time the County approved residential development closer and closer to them over the last two decades. Second, the State permit process for the Cunningham landfill as a matter of public record had been concluded. Cunningham applied for a landfill permit in December 1993. A hearing was held in Feb 2000 where MDE heard testimony from numerous residents including Cunningham's repeated violations. In Sept 2000, MDE made a final determination to deny that permit. Cunningham subsequently appealed all the way to the state courts from 2001 to 2008, and the denial was ultimately upheld by the Court of Special Appeals in March 2008. What was not known to the public, was that a second permit for the site was submitted from a new shell corporation, which included Mr. Cunningham's daughters, in July 2002. The public was not notified of this new permit ap until two years later in July 2004, where once again there was considerable pubilc opposition to it. From 2004 - 2011, MDE reviewed numerous reports and made a number of decisions without any public disclosure. It was not until August 2011, that the public first saw ANY of the details.

Patrick,

Don't judge the area by a few abusive and/or obtuse commenters. The area has problems, no doubt, but there are many upsides to living in Piney Orchard. Great walking/biking trails, family pools, friendly neighbors.

If we can band together as a community and influence the larger Anne Arundel political process, perhaps we can make a difference with these land use issues as well.

Patrick-
Dave is right. There are some heated debates on these discussion boards all the time. Most of the abusive ones are just internet trolls (you should know this, having written on such sites). The moderators here are pretty flexible, which, to me anyway, is a MUCH better alternative that censorship. Anyway, posters here for the most part have their 'big boy pants' on, and can handle the leeches, lurkers and trolls. The Odenton, Gambrills, Crofton and Millersville areas are AWESOME places in which to raise a family.

We've experienced the same phenom in Mass. No one gets involved until it directly affects them. That is the sad part of living in a great Republic like we live in. Usually the ones that run for office have personal agendas and are really working for specific entities. Given the time and money it takes to obtain an office you have to be a Mitt Romni in order to be able to afford a leadership rold. The rest of us are too busy paying bills to take a chance on the possibility of a few years in office and our private lives being totally examined.

We are looking at several communities where we can settle and be a part of the community but we are seeing more residencial settings where the owners/renters have little control over where they live. This is just not us. We will keep looking as I am sure it is out there somewhere. Thank you for your opinion Daniel B. We agree with you. It is not the rules or laws that are at fault. It is the complacency of the communities and their failure/refusal to enforce the rules. And let's not forget how the rules/laws were first put into place - probably by the developers and those with a vested interest. We all need to look-before-we leap and hope that those that came before us had some integrity and fairness. A great jurist once said: "Read the fine print and understand what is not being said or published."

Take care everyone, god bless and have a great weekend remembering those that made it possible.

Actually, Daniel you are dead wrong on your claim of "plenty of public input opportunities" . The developers met with only the School Superintendent's staff, without any public knowledge, for almost a year. They submitted a proposal to the School Board in the first week of July, and then the Superintendent tried to push it through the school board for a vote a week with less than 48 hours public notice. After a public outcry, the School Board told developers to meet with local communities, which they did not complete (meeting only with 3), and they refused to disclose any of the traffic engineering documents that they submitted to the County. Despite the fact that there is a deed restriction on the land limiting development to 55+ housing and the fact that the largest community association formally opposed the proposal, the school board narrowly voted to move forward without any discussion of the environmental issues surrounding the proposed site or the deed restrictions. The Greater Crofton Council had informed the developers that their next meeting was in September. The developers are not following the regular process -- they are looking for waivers and changes to past agreements. They are looking for special treatment.

Daniel, I agree that ultimately the question of development is a political question that must be before the voters, but the developers are proceeding in a fashion to avoid democracy at every turn.

First off, you claim that they have a right to develop their land. That's true - as long as it complies with the existing zoning codes. Right now, today, Two Rivers could be developed at the R-20 (1 home per 20 acres) density that it is zoned.

What the Two Rivers developers have asked for is a special exception to build at least 2,000 home units on that land. They are not asking for the "right to development", they are asking to put a massive, dense development where the zoning law otherwise specifies a rural area.

Now, we can debate that the zoning laws should be changed. But the developer don't want a debate. They got the assent of the unelected school board, and I guarantee they are going to tell the public that they are now carrying out the School Board's wishes.

Anne Arundel County deserves much of the blame, because nearly all the development in the area, including Piney Orchard, has been developed by special exception.

If everything is an exception, then there is no zoning law - only favors granted to landowners at the option of the permanent and unelected bureaucracy of AA County.

It sounds to me as if Daniel has stated the facts correctly. I have tried to catch up on this development issue and it appears as if the developers are only doing what developers do and that there are a lot of sour grapes by those that want things their way or no way. I, too, am against dumps that are not properly regulated without strict enforcement and schools that are not centrally located but I understand that this is probably what the developers wanted all along and they are entitled to make a living in-accordance-with the law. Having covered stories such as these in the past I have found that there is almost always a strong but silent segment of the population that will not want to anger their neighbors by speaking up least they be trashed and that these individuals usually 'go with the flow' when it comes to most things. I believe that that is usually why there is little turnout for elections. My question is simple: who, if anyone, has polled the homeowners and residents that are effected. I know that communities usually have HOAs or Condo Associations that speak for them but, given the politics involved in all HOA or CA elections, I would be more interested in a poll that allowed them to speak for themselves on such important issues.

Patrick,

As for the facts, they require research. As a journalist, you sure understand the dangers of coming to conclusions on the basis of information provided by some guy with a blog comment. I would start with the AA county zoning code:

http://www.aacounty.org/planzone/zoning/index.cfm

Zoning map:
http://gis-world2.aacounty.org/silverlightviewer/?Viewer=Zoning

Phase III engineering report of the Tolson (Cunningham) landfill:
http://www.croftonfirst.org/documents/PhaseIIIEngineeringReportText.pdf

Unfortunately, most of the history of the dump is locked in the AA County archives at the Planning & Zoning department. An in-person visit will get you the right documents.

I would be happy to meet with you and discuss living in the local area if you want.

Patrick, great points. I think most of us want the same thing, I don't think anyone wants a dump near their home. The trouble is some see any additional development as a bad thing. I would much rather have more housing developments and fewer landfills.

Jeff, since you are the president of "the largest community association" that formally opposed this project, perhaps you can answer the questions posed by Patrick H.

Who if anyone has polled the homeowners and resident affected?

And to expand on his question:
How many people attended your meeting?
How many we're opposed?
How many we're for the proposal?
How many we're uncommitted?

I suspect you can't provide an actual number can you?

Chris,

Don't you suppose that the people of Piney Orchard elected a President and a Board to represent them so that they don't have to be aware of every possible issue that could affect them?

What proof do you have that the direct democracy that you advocate for would end up with superior results, with respect to making wise decisions?

I also want to welcome Daniel and Nathan. I was referred to the PATCH by friends who thought I could get a feel for the community. What attreacted you to this Social Media Site?

We are currently staying with friends until we decide where we want to either purchase or rent. Where do you live? My questions were general in nature and not meant to put any single person on the spot. I am sure that most of Chris's questions can be answered by reviewing the minutes of the meetings that took place but it would be nice to simply have the information reported here.

Patrick,

I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but I doubt that more than 10-15% of the people who live in Piney Orchard could definitively locate the proposed landfill, road, and school on the map. I know, because I canvassed the community in a letter-writing campaign against the Cunningham landfill.

As you said before, most folks leave it to others to take the lead on these sorts of things and just do not get involved. I guess my point is that if most folks want to remain blissfully ignorant of these kinds of issues, then what do their opinions contribute to wise decision-making?

I strongly suspect that a majority of people in Piney Orchard would be against a landfill adjacent to Piney Orchard and GORC park, and they would also be against increased traffic near their homes and on their streets.

You have a good weekend as well. Kauffman's recently rennovated and changed their name, they are now "J.Kings": http://www.jkingsrestaurant.com/menus/main-menu

I haven't been there in awhile, but I would also recommend Four Seasons as being a good place to eat. They are a bit expensive for dinner - I recommend their lunch menu.

Dave - you're probably right on all of your points. I doubt if the 10-15% you quote is even close to the actual number (much less). I gues that if people keep doing (or not doing) what they do they shouldn't complain when they keep getting what they got (but I guarantee that they will complain and very angrily). I appreciate your canvassing the community and really am impressed with your advocacy. But there is always a but - I am still curious as to what the area constituents have to say. Minimizing their input would be like forgoing a jury trial and taking the Judges word for it. What does the jury have to say?

No wonder I had trouble finding Kauffman's. We will be sure to take a look at Four Seasons for lunch - thanks for the tip - we try to get out once a month for something different and special.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I just thought Patrick made a great point and wanted to follow up on it. Truthfully, in these modern times there is no reason that the home owners would not be able to vote electronically. It would empower people.

I disagree with Jeff and others that are opposed to this, but I give Jeff credit forthe time he invests in his work for POCA. His hearts in the right place.

Patrick, Piney Orchard is a nice place to live if you are ok with the planned community/HOA concept. There are older neighborhoods in Odenton that are nice too and don't have the HOA. It all depends on what you are looking for.

Christopher's on route 3 in crofton is a nice restaurant. Hunan Rose is the best local Chinese restaurant.